tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post466503022651818599..comments2023-11-02T06:57:11.400-04:00Comments on BookEnds Literary Agency: Word Count RulesBookEnds, A Literary Agencyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06287278822065839469noreply@blogger.comBlogger51125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-36929969103445774892015-07-21T23:44:38.000-04:002015-07-21T23:44:38.000-04:00The problem with saying things like, "Ignore ...The problem with saying things like, "Ignore word count and just write the book," or, " A book is as long or as short as it needs to be," is that a publisher or agent will not ignore it, nor will they consider the needs of the story being told. The bottom line is the dollar amount involved. That"s harsh, but it's true. The issue publishers are going to have (it's starting now) is the quickly-rising self-publishing coup going on right now as we speak. Amazon and its SP ilk, are cornering the market on publishing. SP allows a writer, yes... the good, the bad and the ugly, to publish at will. They must market their books on their own (my job) which can be a tribulation, but in this age of self-made websites and social media outlets, it's completely doable for the layman/budding writer who wants to see their work in print. Agents and editors will have a harder time than their publisher employers (wake it up, Big 6). Because while a mainstream publisher may not publish an author's book, which means no work for agents or editors on any level, an SP will, and a writer with a little extra cash will pay a freelance editor (no agent needed... Get in the bread line already) to sharpen their opus as they see fit. And just on a side note, as someone who has done editing, I'd consider the characters before I'd opt out of taking on a book with cussing or violence. Seriously?? For example, ive edited books by a southern writer who grew up on shrimp boats. They cussed and heralded a very gritty lifestyle which was reflected in his book as a natural occurrence of their daily lives. Another client's MS had a rape scene. Pretty violent. But, it's a. Rime story so, the ya go. And, keep in mind, Scarlet Ohara was (as you'd like to interpret it) assaulted by Rhett in their marital bed. I bet Margaret Mitchell's editors lamented all the way to the bank over the fat WC and her use of a graphic scene. My advice to any publishers or agents reading this? Get with the times. Other options are opening for authors of all kinds and missing the boat because of fat WC and curse words (still can't get that one) will sink it completely. Don't think so? Then remember this phrase, "Cut out the middleman." You're the middlemen and that phrase is highly recognizable for a reason. It exemplifies efficiency and in this day and age, where a creator can move a product to the hands of their target market on their own with the click of a mouse, that's prized. Because it works. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-58417759028494385862012-03-22T12:40:16.193-04:002012-03-22T12:40:16.193-04:00David Lightfoot-I know I may be a bit late here as...David Lightfoot-I know I may be a bit late here as I'm just now seeing this page, but if you are still wondering about this, I would like to offer my two cents worth. It sounds like you have a very good story here and that your best option might be to consider publishing this as two books, you know, with a first part and then its sequel. This way I think you would minimize the amount of cutting you'd have to do and preserve more of this great story it sounds like you've written. Some of the greatest stories ever written that have ended up on the big screen fit in this category. I'd hate to see you sell yourself short on this one.<br />As for me, I am just now finishing a Native American fictional story which has a historical part and then moves into "present day", and follows a family on their journey as they end up taking their vacation in the same area as where these tribes were supposed to have been "years ago". I feel that I have a great story here with great character development, a great plot and all of that, but I think my main problem is I tend to get a big too wordy at times, so being at 112 k plus words right now (MS Word count, including my introduction), I know right now I am going to have to do some trimming and cutting. But I think the trick is going to be to go back and identify the areas where I got too wordy and begin cutting in those areas and hopefully avoid having to cut too much into my character thought/reflection sequences, etc. Maybe some of this will help you (David) or someone else here. Best of luck to you all. <br /><br />My note of encouragement for the day: My daughter and I met Nicholas Sparks at his book signing for "The Last Song". My thoughts as I walked out of the Barnes & Noble that day: If he can do it (as well as so many others) I can!!<br /><br /> So for now, I will write an epilogue to my story, then begin the cutting process. I have other story projects "simmering on the back burner. But I will definitely be paying more attention to word count, as well as avoiding excessive wordiness in the first place. Then, hopefully on future projects I will not have to do so much cutting.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-21578737397894486292011-05-08T15:17:45.360-04:002011-05-08T15:17:45.360-04:00I know I'm years too late too, but I have a qu...I know I'm years too late too, but I have a question about my latest novel, which is very long. It's called "Broken Family Portrait, and it's an unbelievable 303,400 words long. My character is a severe cerebral palsic who, among other things, cannot censor things he says in speeches due to a malfunctioning brain tumor.<br /><br />Between all the drama between his family, the bullying he endures in his childhood/school years, and dealing with his own dysfunctional marriage, putting up with his sisters and their husbands who are abusive parents, and battling a pro-spanking society that seems to favour including children with severe physical and mental disabilities and retardation, etc., he sure has been through a lot.<br /><br />I really don't know how to get it down to 100,000 words or so without losing any plot elements or any part of my protagonist Robin's sarcastic and witty nature. Yet, now I'm worried that no publisher will take it, and this is a novel I'm most proud of. <br /><br />Some advice would be most appreciated. ThanksDavid Lightfootnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-37193333274018260942011-01-07T02:03:18.968-05:002011-01-07T02:03:18.968-05:00I know I'm adding this years to late, but I ne...I know I'm adding this years to late, but I need to comment.<br />I personally would rather read a book that gets straight to the point, instead of reading 15 pages of worthless description.<br />I don't care what color the flowers are in the hallway or that 100 books lined the shelves in no particular order! Get real people. Sometimes too much description is a waste and a reader could easily get bored.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-51772059192748371732009-12-19T04:17:21.942-05:002009-12-19T04:17:21.942-05:00I wrote a fantasy romance about 120,000 words, but...I wrote a fantasy romance about 120,000 words, but found after reviewing it I really could cut about 10,00o words. Hope that is enough cutting:)Amy Blackwelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05097097967425062223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-48134774135422369642009-06-06T13:36:37.886-04:002009-06-06T13:36:37.886-04:00To some of the posters worrying about the word cou...To some of the posters worrying about the word count MS Word returns, don't. Yes, it's an accurate word count. But the "word count" that publishers care about is the 250 per page rule (properly formatted), because that tells them how many pages your novel is going to be once it's printed. The fact you may actually have more or less words on a particular page is irrelevant.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04762034738566189145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-71764047672644610542009-03-03T13:45:00.000-05:002009-03-03T13:45:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Julie Weathershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13725236516593676381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-34077025019552825112008-06-22T16:50:00.000-04:002008-06-22T16:50:00.000-04:00I write literary fiction and in the last year and ...I write literary fiction and in the last year and a half have seen the acceptable word count limit diminish from 150,000 to 120,000 maximum. I've had several people read the whole MS and describe it as a "page turner". Even people who DON'T know me lol. But I'm SURE that when I state my word count on my query letter, it'll sink me. I'm wondering if I can state instead. Word count is "a bit less than The Corrections" and leave it at that?kdjamesonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13066652644486261581noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-4591832106646969872008-06-01T01:37:00.000-04:002008-06-01T01:37:00.000-04:00As Jessica would likely say, "It all depends." Di...As Jessica would likely say, "It all depends." Different genres seem to have different ranges. You look at some pubs like Harlequin, and they are cutting word counts. SF/Fantasy has always had a longer word count than others in my experience. Likely a typical readership sort of thing. Pubs know the 'typical' fantasy reader likes and maybe expects longer books. Look at Wheel of Time as a prime example. Mainstream stuff seems to break the word count mold more often than specific genres. Obviously, sometimes books come along that are just too good, and they get published with long word counts. I think a lot of the specific genres have tight word counts though for financial reasons. Romance fiction seems to be the big example of this. So, I guess it really depends on what you are writing. You can get ballpark ranges for nearly any genre of book, but there are always going to be books that bust that limit. You can hope for that, but odds are not on the side of the writer.<BR/><BR/>JDuncanJDuncanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00487305836910594252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-77165365874250770532008-05-31T23:24:00.000-04:002008-05-31T23:24:00.000-04:00Chro, While I'm sure Name of the Wind is a fascina...Chro, While I'm sure <I>Name of the Wind</I> is a fascinating read (it currently ranks #522 on Amazon), we can't really use it for comparison because it's fantasy. It's like comparing watermelons to limes. Fantasy is allowed to be longer. Everyone expects that because of the necessary world building. If you're writing a fantasy, imho, you should just go on with what you're doing, and don't worry about the naysayers. Some of the greatest inventions (and art) were created by people who were told it couldn't be done. <BR/><BR/>I don't mean this to be disrespectful to the great women of BookEnds. It's their agency; they get to make the rules for it. And while some agents agree wholeheartedly with them, others don't, obviously, or we wouldn't have the bestsellers (among the many I couldn't name at the moment) on the very short list I provided. Believe me, if it's great, they will read it. We do well to remember that everything in this business is subjective.astrologymemphis.blogspot.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08094432734141490681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-49491308315071756052008-05-31T16:30:00.000-04:002008-05-31T16:30:00.000-04:00Personally, I hate long books - with a few excepti...Personally, I hate long books - with a few exceptions. <BR/><BR/>It takes a more talented author to write a great short book, less than 200 pages, than some 700 page saga. But, in the end, a book is as long as it needs to be. Writers should focus more on the quality of the words than the word count. <BR/><BR/>When books are not physical objects, will word count matter as much?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-53195686709188671852008-05-31T15:00:00.000-04:002008-05-31T15:00:00.000-04:00Oh, don't forget Diana Gabladon.Oh, don't forget Diana Gabladon.Julie Weathershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13725236516593676381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-41344901132207955852008-05-31T11:44:00.000-04:002008-05-31T11:44:00.000-04:00Southern Writer - Don't forget Patrick Rothfuss' "...Southern Writer - Don't forget Patrick Rothfuss' "Name of the Wind". Debut author, won the quill award, bestseller on NYT, and the book is almost 700 words in small font. Don't know the exact word count I'm afraid.Chrohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07768990128419496674noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-41111108711379956022008-05-31T10:35:00.000-04:002008-05-31T10:35:00.000-04:00Here we go again. This is such an on-going debate....Here we go again. This is such an on-going debate. Someday I'm actually going to make an exhaustive list of debut authors who wrote "long" books, and save it, so I don't have to keep looking them up all the time. I can't even remember the same ones over and over, and must rely on scanning my bookshelves, then checking Amazon's text stats. <BR/><BR/>The Time Traveler's Wife <BR/>by Audrey Niffenegger <BR/>words: 155,255 <BR/>Amazon Ranking still #513<BR/><BR/>Songs in Ordinary Time <BR/>by Mary McGarry Morris <BR/>words: 277,324 <BR/><BR/>The Corrections <BR/>by Jonathan Franzen<BR/>words: 196,323<BR/><BR/>Fall On Your Knees <BR/>by Ann-Marie MacDonald <BR/>words: 167,578<BR/><BR/>Memoirs of a Geisha <BR/>by Arthur Golden<BR/>words: 187,976<BR/><BR/>House of Sand and Fog<BR/>by Andre Dubus<BR/>words: 141,081<BR/><BR/>I'm just sayin'.astrologymemphis.blogspot.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08094432734141490681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-41689035554654359052008-05-31T08:08:00.000-04:002008-05-31T08:08:00.000-04:00When book shopping, if the book is too thin I don'...When book shopping, if the book is too thin I don't even pick it up. I'm a pretty fast read so I go through short books too fast. The thicker the better. Just don't bulk it up with useless descriptions. And I usually wait for the paperback (unless its an author I LOVE) because hardbacks are too bulky to cart everywhere. <BR/>I have one WIP I just realized is 500 pages. Yikes! Sorry, it takes a lot of pages to wipe out every being on the planet, bring in the voice of God and wipe out the zombies. lol <BR/>I think I have some cutting to do.Aimlesswriterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03012050763172251381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-21148713973317536772008-05-31T01:20:00.000-04:002008-05-31T01:20:00.000-04:00My editor told me when she offerd me the contract ...My editor told me when she offerd me the contract for my 112,000 word historical romance that we'd have to cut 12,000 words.<BR/><BR/>I'm finding when you have to be ruthless, it's amazing what you can let go of. Some of the scenes or sentences are painful to delete, but this process really forces you to look at every word, every scene and wonder if it's required for the story. I know I'll pay closer attention to word count in my next manuscript.Jeannie Rueschhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16121805051292444835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-15321842233658721722008-05-31T00:42:00.000-04:002008-05-31T00:42:00.000-04:00The word count is the actual number of words, corr...The word count is the actual number of words, correct? The different templates used and the trim size will determine the page count.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-69168026199654282432008-05-30T23:41:00.000-04:002008-05-30T23:41:00.000-04:00I love long books, as Chro says, with deep charact...I love long books, as Chro says, with deep characters and complex plotting. I think publishers claim readers won't buy long works because the publishers want to keep their costs down. And they're probably right to do so. I don't want to pay $10 for a paperback (but I expect it'll come to that one day).Elissa Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10727748060605823895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-5759396352136554922008-05-30T22:07:00.000-04:002008-05-30T22:07:00.000-04:00I write mostly short paragraphs and lots of dialog...I write mostly short paragraphs and lots of dialogue. The book I just completed for Avon Red had a word count of 83,163 according to Microsoft Word. Using the 250 per page rule, it came out to 94,750. That's a huge difference.<BR/><BR/>LynnLynn LaFleurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17859597499640023156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-10291345169588010992008-05-30T20:38:00.000-04:002008-05-30T20:38:00.000-04:00During my latest round of agent queries, I had aro...During my latest round of agent queries, I had around a 60K (according to MS Word...) manuscript. One rejected it because it wasn't at least 80K, one asked for a partial, and the rest rejected it without comment on the word count.<BR/><BR/>So, much like the rest of publishing's "rules", it's a complete crapshoot...T. M. Hunterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04315726033990784930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-17359384871004618382008-05-30T20:13:00.000-04:002008-05-30T20:13:00.000-04:00Every time I read agents' comments on word count I...Every time I read agents' comments on word count I get frustrated. I look at my shelf of books...row on row of novels with word counts that double, even triple, the limits often stated. My favourite stories pass the limits without a pause, and I wonder how they found publication.<BR/><BR/>I wonder how many more novels that I would love languish in the rejection bins because of word count issues. I enjoy sprawling stories hundreds of pages long, the longer the better. I'm not the only one, every reader I know agrees...except, it seems, the agents and publishers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-44554892401573897072008-05-30T20:06:00.000-04:002008-05-30T20:06:00.000-04:00The book I'm working on now is epic fantasy. It's ...The book I'm working on now is epic fantasy. It's hitting 130,000 words and I know I'm going to have to trim it. <BR/><BR/>The problem is, I drop clues everywhere. When someone has to jump out a window and skitter down a tree, it isn't a surprise because she and her father were up in a tree earlier, watching a sunset. I don't like characters just popping up with abilities. Laying all that foundation takes time.<BR/><BR/>I'm putting it through two workshops, so we'll see what shakes out. Reading it now, I see several places that need to be fleshed out more.<BR/><BR/>sighJulie Weathershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13725236516593676381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-16993877728108333672008-05-30T18:37:00.000-04:002008-05-30T18:37:00.000-04:00I write YA, so that should be taken into considera...I write YA, so that should be taken into consideration.<BR/><BR/>I write short first drafts. I tunnel vision my way through the story, usually focusing on my protagonist and antagonist's POV's only (or hero and heroine as the case may be) and wind up in the mid-60s. Then I draft it to around 80k, adding in the depth and layers. My very first novel was 90k, but I suspect I padded that. I was VERY focused on word count when I wrote it. I'm more comfy with my range now. I think if I wanted to, I could write 100k - but it would be with my same process, short drafts, edit in depth/length.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-91689498334221584152008-05-30T18:22:00.000-04:002008-05-30T18:22:00.000-04:00Acording to MS word, all of my rough drafts have r...Acording to MS word, all of my rough drafts have rung in between 90,000 to 105,00 words. I write sci/fi fantasy so from what I understand I am allowed a little longer book. <BR/><BR/>As I have revised my latest Ms I have kept to the 105,500 range because for every unnecessary word I cut I have added much needed description. <BR/><BR/>(I actually have a nightmare of some editor calling me and saying "ummm... Chapter 19... where are we?") So I go back and add detail. I used to do too much description and I became over conscious to a fault now. SIGH! <BR/><BR/>MichelleAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-5568970601641716322008-05-30T18:01:00.000-04:002008-05-30T18:01:00.000-04:00Shaun--I use Open Office.org, and I've done a numb...Shaun--I use Open Office.org, and I've done a number of small-scale tests to check its accuracy.<BR/><BR/>I think the real problem I'm facing is that by the computer word count (which I've heard Harlequin does now, too), it's category length, and by the page word count, it's single title length. So which is it?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com