tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post7390221352859680887..comments2023-11-02T06:57:11.400-04:00Comments on BookEnds Literary Agency: Word CountBookEnds, A Literary Agencyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06287278822065839469noreply@blogger.comBlogger72125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-15224147431695663862015-05-05T20:37:38.137-04:002015-05-05T20:37:38.137-04:00My advice wold be concentrate on the story. Here ...My advice wold be concentrate on the story. Here is a list of books with 60000 words or less<br /><br />The Lord of the Flies<br />The Great Gatsby<br />Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy<br />As I Lay Dying<br />Breakfast at Tiffany's<br />Brave New World<br />Animal Farm<br />Slaughter House 5<br />Hotel du Lac<br />The Old Man and The Sea<br /><br />And if you look on the shelves of you local book store you'll be <i>amazed</i> how many books are around this level or less.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-3300101054522978902012-03-15T19:10:03.788-04:002012-03-15T19:10:03.788-04:00Many thanks for this information! It was exactly w...Many thanks for this information! It was exactly what I needed this evening.Lauren F. Boydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03934796581125939821noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-12367112954602262422012-02-18T21:56:10.070-05:002012-02-18T21:56:10.070-05:00This is great information. One thing you didn'...This is great information. One thing you didn't mention was upper YA. Since this seems to be a relatively new target that kind of bridges the YA and adult market, I can't find any specific guidelines for word count. My gut says my initial goal of 70,000-80,000 is acceptable for an upper YA contemporary, but I'm not sure.romanceauthorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07303918626703563608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-72040292263245619452012-02-18T21:53:25.706-05:002012-02-18T21:53:25.706-05:00This is great information. One thing you didn'...This is great information. One thing you didn't mention was upper YA. Since this seems to be a relatively new target that kind of bridges the YA and adult market, I can't find any specific guidelines for word count. My gut says my initial goal of 70,000-80,000 is acceptable, but I'm not sure.romanceauthorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07303918626703563608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-87506300150041636502012-01-10T18:15:57.650-05:002012-01-10T18:15:57.650-05:00Amazing how many unnecessary words I'm finding...Amazing how many unnecessary words I'm finding now that I'm looking for them....Shadowhttp://undrelas.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-43019099471861427552011-07-09T09:58:12.329-04:002011-07-09T09:58:12.329-04:00Thank you Jen, for the advice.
I am a new writer,...Thank you Jen, for the advice. <br />I am a new writer,and only have 30,000 words, Now I will have to go back and more details while I'm writing. I thought i was almost done, silly me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-7585105989666494952010-01-13T11:26:05.746-05:002010-01-13T11:26:05.746-05:00Thank you! I can always find the answers I'm l...Thank you! I can always find the answers I'm looking for here and I appreciate that.Jeanhttp://www.jeanoram.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-71337194150211158222009-11-07T18:58:47.629-05:002009-11-07T18:58:47.629-05:00I too have a story that involves a character with ...I too have a story that involves a character with five personalities.This has taken a lot of words to develop each personality. If I try to cut it it wouldn't be believable and I am cutting it as much as I can. I can see the agonies of having to snip the personalites to make a word count. Isn't there any exceptions when it is as involved as that?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-25185038565330411012009-10-27T10:36:14.055-04:002009-10-27T10:36:14.055-04:00It looks to me like what they REALLY want to know ...It looks to me like what they REALLY want to know is PAGE COUNT. Seems silly to figure out the number of pages, then calculate the number of words based on that, only to have them calculate back to pages. Why not just give us very specific dimensions and rules to put into our word processors and then let that tell how many pages?<br /><br />Frex, some research turned up that the smallest books (the ones on the majority of bookshelves) are 5.25x8 inches, though I took a ruler to a book in my hand and found it was much smaller: 4.125x6.625. That's a loss of over an inch in each dimension!<br /><br />Further measuring of books shows they have about 40 lines per page and around 10 words per line for full-length lines (as in, they go all the way across the page). Margins are about .375 inches, except the top, which is twice as much at .75 inches. This leaves a text area of 3.375x5.5 inches.<br /><br />Dividing the vertical space by the number of lines yields about 10 points, but that would be with letters touching, so I think 9 or even 8 point fonts are being used. I'm no font expert, but I think something like Times New Roman is pretty close to what I'm seeing.<br /><br />Of course, we know the above 400 WpP figure I calculated is for a text-dense page. Is the oft-quoted 250 also text-dense, or is it considered an average across all pages? If so, I'd expect a text-dense page to actually be around 300 WpP.<br /><br />(Text-dense = large, long paragraphs, very few short-lines and very little whitespace left over.)<br /><br />But wait! No agent/editor/publisher/whatever wants to have to squint at 8 point fonts on a screen, and they're for some reason unable to use the built-in zoom function to adjust the size to whatever is comfortable for them, so they want us to write on a regular 8.5x11 sheet with 1 inch margins with 12 or 14 point font and double-spacing, which comes out to around the same word per page counts, but with slightly different dimensions so that the published book still won't look much like what you send them.<br /><br />Okay, am I getting off track? I'll stop.<br /><br />(The above measurements were rounded to the nearest 1/8 of an inch.)<br /><br />So the only thing I learned here was that when they say "word count", that doesn't have anything at all to do with the actual number of words, and what the really want is a page count, but they won't tell you the exact dimensions to put into your word processor, so there's no way to know in advance what to say, so you just give them a ball-park figure and hope they believe you.Jayceehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08825940678877762774noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-63196783084267786172009-09-24T10:40:21.176-04:002009-09-24T10:40:21.176-04:00A further question... If you have a complete triol...A further question... If you have a complete triology how do you pitch it to potential agents via query. One query at a time or a larger query that encompasses everything? Again thank you for any and all responses.BTCnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-87677350642413906402009-09-24T10:34:50.606-04:002009-09-24T10:34:50.606-04:00This has been a very informing post. Thank you fo...This has been a very informing post. Thank you for all of the input. I have a 245,000 Stephen Kingish type novel that I was just now starting to try and send queries out for and now I realize that it is way too long for a first work. I wrote it after doing word counts on other books in the genre and it is long but shorter than many of them. Now I realize that it needs to be divided into a trilogy since it is my first work. Fortunately I had divided it into three 'books' within the novel anyways each with it's own smaller plot that feeds into the larger plot and each with its own conclusion (but they all keep going on a bigger progressive plot). So now I guess I have three books to market as a trilogy not one large one. The first is 90k, the second is 80k and the third is 75k. The individual books will need a slight bit of tweaking to make sure they stand alone cleanly but I don't see any other strategy to have a first work(s) published without that divide. The work has already been thoroughly reviewed by an outside editor and there isn't a lot left to cut, it is just a long work that tells a complex story. Does anyone have any experience or advice on this? Thank you for any and all information.BTCnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-55888942462840627812009-08-20T13:57:06.069-04:002009-08-20T13:57:06.069-04:00I haven't seen much here regarding non-fiction...I haven't seen much here regarding non-fiction. Is that different, or the same as fiction? All the non-fiction I buy tends to hover around 500 pages, and I've actually found myself walking away from books because they look too thin. <br /><br />When I read a book, I like to get completely absorbed by the topic, and have found that it just doesn't happen with 300 pages. <br /><br />My first two books came in at 300 and 400 pages respectively, but the one I just finished (cough), if the 12-pt Courier method is used, comes in at 136,000 words, or 544 pages. <br /><br />I've considered breaking it into two volumes, as I did for my last two (they were supposed to be one 300 page book, but my publisher let me split it and more than double the page count). The present book is something I really don't want to split, but my former agent tells me it absolutely can't be over 90k. I'm going to cross my fingers and hope on this one, because from what I've seen here, there are plenty of exceptions to the rules.<br /><br />As long as it isn't 40k or 200k, but somewhere in the middle, it sounds possible to publish, though the closer one gets to the outer markers, the slimmer the pickings get.Dr. Andrew Paquettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04109980844555695058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-37848356628826758312009-08-10T05:55:26.580-04:002009-08-10T05:55:26.580-04:00PV Lundqvist said...
"Huh. The YA word count...PV Lundqvist said... <br />"Huh. The YA word count sounds a bit high. I keep hearing that houses are looking for books around 200 pages long. That would put the word count around 40-50k."<br /><br />My upper-level YA novel is 211 pages, 61,078 words, TNR 12 pt. in MS Word. My own past research on YA word count turned up 50-80,000 as an average guideline.<br /><br />Thanks for this post. What occurred to me while reading was how the pre-determined word counts make it more difficult to query a novel that crosses categories.<br /><br />For instance, my 61,000 word novel could be YA fiction, women's fiction or even offbeat lit fic, but querying a different category could take more than writing a new, category-appropriate query letter -- it could entail adding to the book. <br /><br />Hmmm. I hadn't thought of that wrinkle.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-64328199964603942652009-08-04T11:07:40.956-04:002009-08-04T11:07:40.956-04:00when i want to compare the length of my work to ot...when i want to compare the length of my work to other books i've read, i just go to amazon.com to see if they have the text stats on it. just scroll down to the 'inside this book' section, and, sometimes 'text stats' will be a link under it. not only does it have the words, but what percentage of books have more or lessAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-45822369963969509182009-07-28T12:45:28.654-04:002009-07-28T12:45:28.654-04:00This is really helpful- thanks.
Especially the wor...This is really helpful- thanks.<br />Especially the word count ballpark range for women's fiction.Robin S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03258459688300851984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-76465133187694332012009-07-28T10:06:58.892-04:002009-07-28T10:06:58.892-04:00Barry, that's extremely long. Most fantasies a...Barry, that's extremely long. Most fantasies are *not* that long. If you mean the ones by George Martin and others who have a regular readership already built up for an ongoing series, that's so. But most fantasies are in the 80,000-word neighborhood. Listen to your agent.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-11951786460353557802009-07-27T13:50:39.386-04:002009-07-27T13:50:39.386-04:00Anon 435, 745:
Thanks for the lengthy response. I ...Anon 435, 745:<br />Thanks for the lengthy response. I have to say, I am really impressed. I used to write 2,000 a day (yrs ago) and thought that was alot. Now, I shoot for 1,000. Today, feeling inspired by you, I am writing more. Thank you and the best of luck to you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-24805715320893357042009-07-27T12:59:13.489-04:002009-07-27T12:59:13.489-04:00Huh. The YA word count sounds a bit high. I keep h...Huh. The YA word count sounds a bit high. I keep hearing that houses are looking for books around 200 pages long. That would put the word count around 40-50k.PV Lundqvisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04144485318046805732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-17887879264003175262009-07-27T09:29:12.575-04:002009-07-27T09:29:12.575-04:00I've been told by an agent that my 170,000 wor...I've been told by an agent that my 170,000 word adult fantasy is way too long and that I should cut it to 60,000-80,000. This seems wrong since most fantasies are at least as long as mine and often much longer. My friend's first novel, 190,000 word a fantasy, has just been published by a major publisher.Barrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-56897265545756606452009-07-26T22:38:41.885-04:002009-07-26T22:38:41.885-04:00I don't like to read books that look too short...I don't like to read books that look too short, except category. I'm always afraid that the book won't deliver because it's too small.<br />That said, eek!!! My cont. romance is weighing in at 75k. We'll see how querying goes. LOLJessica Nelsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12365768876905444157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-34974454121498088362009-07-26T15:45:59.927-04:002009-07-26T15:45:59.927-04:00Andrew (July 24)...
I think you are confusing your...Andrew (July 24)...<br />I think you are confusing yourself needlessly. Go by word count. No one is saying a printed page = 250 words. Word count (assuming your manuscript is in courier 12 with 1-inch margins) in a manuscript *will* come out to about 250 words per page. This is useful only as a writer's alternate way of assessing the length of a manuscript, nothing more. Before word processing and computers, people did not actually count words. They counted the pages in their manuscript and then multiplied by 250 in order to calculate the total word count of their novel.<br /><br />If you want to compare the recommended manuscript length to actual books in the store, you need to look only at the new ones, books acquired within the past year or two. Books printed 5, 10, 20 years ago cannot be compared. Publishers were acquiring longer books then than they are now.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-24957473809509263172009-07-25T18:36:15.619-04:002009-07-25T18:36:15.619-04:00"No one is going to check and no one is going..."No one is going to check and no one is going to criticize you because you were 100, 1,000, or even 10,000 words off in your count. It’s just to give us an idea of where things stand, so do what works for you."<br /><br />So, can I correctly assume that if you guys said "no" to a 60K manuscript because it seemed too short, and it turns out that the MS is in fact 70K according to another method of word counting, it probably wouldn't have made a difference, because 70K is too short as well? No special genre here.<br /><br />I'm sad that the 60K number in my query might have turned off some agents when I in fact could have used a 70K word count and still been industry-appropriate.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-5551160537661378722009-07-25T11:07:09.948-04:002009-07-25T11:07:09.948-04:00Thank you for this post. I do have a question, tho...Thank you for this post. I do have a question, though. I have a couple of middle-grades that I am seeking representation for. I'm hearing from some agents that the word count is not high enough. But, while I can certainly add to the manuscripts, I wonder what's wrong with telling the story we have to tell in the number of words it takes to tell it? So, let’s say I've written a MG that comes in at 18,000 words. I might even think that this book would be great for a reluctant reader. I'm sure that I could add to this MS and make it longer, but should we dismiss something based simply on word count?<br /> As an editor, I've read many books in which I felt the writing could be tightened. There have been times when I felt a whole chapter could be killed because it didn't move the story ahead or show character development. Maybe it's just because I've been a journalist for years and look at things differently. Am I making sense at all? I'm just trying to understand why we can't tell the stories we have to tell in the number of words it takes to tell them with no padding or adding just for the sake of meeting a pre-established word count. And, of course, I'm not talking about something being 6,000 words, but in the ballpark, perhaps just on the lower end of the word count. Anyway, thanks for listening, and I would appreciate any guidance or feedback on this. <br />I'm finishing a MG (which totally cracks me up) that will be longer than the other ones I've written not because I am shooting for it to be longer, but because the story requires it. It will be interesting to see how agents respond to the query on this one compared to the others simply based on word count.<br />Lastly, I really appreciate your posts. You offer valuable insight and I’m learning new things every day.Buffy Andrewshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07033283884801658206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-6511143022620379302009-07-25T02:39:01.633-04:002009-07-25T02:39:01.633-04:00This kind of thing is SO helpful, and why I'm ...This kind of thing is SO helpful, and why I'm so glad for you agent and pub peeps to be writing blogs. Merci merci!London Mabelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04344685160375710889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-48171603421380364022009-07-25T00:53:05.052-04:002009-07-25T00:53:05.052-04:00When trying to figure out the pacing and page coun...When trying to figure out the pacing and page count for my WIP, I went through several of my favorite romances and counted the words on a few representative pages to see how many words end up on a printed page. (Hint for if you want to try this: turn the page upside-down and count it that way. Your brain doesn't make the words as easily so it's much faster to count.) In the published books, they ended up with 300+ words per page - even the ones with dialogue.<br /><br />I have been keeping track of word count via the built-in one in the computer and the number of pages in each chapter, but do I need to be counting a strict 250 words/page even if that's not actually accurate?Wendy Quallshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09738672242498685175noreply@blogger.com