tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post953025380394494435..comments2023-11-02T06:57:11.400-04:00Comments on BookEnds Literary Agency: Are You Too ExplicitBookEnds, A Literary Agencyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06287278822065839469noreply@blogger.comBlogger48125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-33038302261633390942008-08-10T12:51:00.000-04:002008-08-10T12:51:00.000-04:00I was frequently squicked by explicit sex from the...I was frequently squicked by explicit sex from the time of twelve when I really Did Not Get It. And I am still annoyed by explicit sex scenes and books that focus on sexual relationships; if I wanted to read porn, I'd read porn. <BR/><BR/>If it were me, I'd like a warning the query letter. Whether it's 'a dark and disturbing tale' and 'without mercy' or 'hot' 'sexy'. That should be enough of a clue for me to know whether I want to read it.<BR/><BR/>Worst book I read? First volume had a bit of fighting and death. Second volume described, step by step, the killing and dismemberment of a child. By the good guy. The victim was his own nephew whom he had befriended.<BR/><BR/>Now I could just have lived with that if it had been perpetrated by a villain... but by the guy I'm supposed to cheer for? Only reason I wasn't physically sick was that I read it on the morning of a sunny day. Would I have wanted a warning? <BR/><BR/>You bet.green_knighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16499896006012152260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-82115796493435472792008-08-09T11:43:00.000-04:002008-08-09T11:43:00.000-04:00Lea -- my very favorite erotic romance right now i...Lea -- my very favorite erotic romance right now is <I>Bad Case of Loving You</I> by Laney Cairo. Every time I read it, I'm startled all over again by just how much sex there is in it, because it doesn't feel like it when I think about the book.<BR/><BR/>I don't like pointless sex in stories, and when I run into it I skim through it. If I do too much skimming I feel cheated by the book. None of the sex in <I>Bad Case</I> is pointless, though; it's very explicit and gets into one or two kinks which one doesn't usually see in the mainstream romances, but it all <I>works</I> -- it reveals character and develops the relationship and furthers the plot, and just generally pulls its weight through the story. (Aside from being wonderfully well written and hot.) This is the best example I can think of of how to get a lot of explicit sex into a book without going over the line into "Too Much" either in quantity or explicitness.<BR/><BR/>AngieAngiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11920578701763415331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-14593020238943120052008-08-09T11:37:00.000-04:002008-08-09T11:37:00.000-04:00I agree with colettegarmer: If Jessica (or any of ...I agree with colettegarmer: If Jessica (or any of you readers) could list a couple examples of "good" or well-written erotica, and maybe a book or two from different ends of the explicit scale, that would be super helpful. <BR/><BR/>I'll admit that this was my question that I sent in, and although I'm pretty set on NOT mention the explicit scenes in my query, I'm still confused. Several people mentioned "standards of the genre" but I haven't been able to find any clear cut standards. I'm not writing a romance like the ones on the shelves with the Fabio-like men on the covers. I'm pretty firm in my idea to market it as women's fiction. I think some of my readers have concerns because the book starts when the MC is only 17, though by the second half (where most of the explicit scenes take place) she's in her 20's. I'm certainly not afraid of writing an erotica novel (indeed, that's one of my next ideas lol) but this one isn't it. It's not a YA novel either, but I guess there will always be readers who are uncomfortable with more than a closed-mouth kiss from anyone under 18. :-) <BR/><BR/>Sorry to steal the thread haha. But if anyone could point me toward some clear genre standards, or toward some good examples that I can read, I'd be super appreciative!J. Lea Lopezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14127268567300257974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-61615909567603193232008-08-07T17:31:00.000-04:002008-08-07T17:31:00.000-04:00I'd be leery of a ratings system, for fear that th...I'd be leery of a ratings system, for fear that the book-banning crowd would jump on it, wanting to ban R-rated books from libraries and things like that.<BR/><BR/>That said, this is one area where I think fanfic is ahead of profic. Fanfic includes in its header a warning line for any potentially disturbing content. The interesting thing is that while this very helpfully steers me away from stories I don't want to read (for example, stories involving physical abuse of heroine by hero), the warning line also acts as a hook sometimes! When reading fanfic, I often check the warning line before the plot summary, because it's there I'm most likely to be hooked!<BR/><BR/>About a year ago, I read a very popular book that I was under the impression was a sweet time-travel romance. Then I came to a scene where the hero beat the heroine for disobeying him, and that was followed by numerous torture and rape (or near-rape) scenes. I really felt blindsided. I would not have read the book if I'd known that content was in there.<BR/><BR/>Ironically, I've read more disturbing content than that in fanfic, but in those cases I knew what I was getting into because I'd read the warning line. I thought, "Well, I don't care for X, but maybe I'll just take a look...?" And in those cases I wasn't bothered by the content--at least I wasn't blindsided--because I'd made an informed choice to expose myself to it.AmyBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02636921840451091870noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-48234644184175960092008-08-07T11:46:00.000-04:002008-08-07T11:46:00.000-04:00Like many others explicit sex doesn't bother me. I...Like many others explicit sex doesn't bother me. I prefer it be in the mix of a great story. If I start to feel like its just sex-for-sex sake then I start skimming until I find the story again. No biggie.<BR/><BR/>I'm not sure about the rating thing. I know many review sites provide a rating and that's great for readers who may not want something so hot. <BR/><BR/>I think that's the great thing about our genre. There are so many heat levels. So many themes, genres, subgenres. There's something for everyone.Selena Blakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09398782829811709128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-79842042047435063662008-08-07T08:06:00.000-04:002008-08-07T08:06:00.000-04:00I would like Jessica to post a few of the novels s...I would like Jessica to post a few of the novels she feels are good examples of erotica. <BR/><BR/>No rating system. Big Brother's watching too many of our private activities as it is.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-76602875507338576142008-08-07T05:56:00.000-04:002008-08-07T05:56:00.000-04:00I was reading fantasy and sci-fi from the adult se...I was reading fantasy and sci-fi from the adult section of the library when I was 11 or so, and so I ran into sex scenes at an age when perhaps I shouldn't have. It didn't bother me, on the whole, but on two occasions I still remember I found myself reading rape scenes, and as a young girl, it was not so great. <BR/><BR/>While I really hate the idea of a rating system, I also hate the idea of strictly confining voracious young readers to the YA section... some kind of notification of sexual violence--very subtle--might be a good thing. Particularly in cases when an author writes some books that are more or less YA-appropriate and others that are not. One of the rape scenes I accidentally read was in a book by an author who also writes a series that, while in the adult section, has many young fans... I think in that case at least there should be a warning.<BR/><BR/>(By the way, I've just found your blog, so this is my first comment. Hi! I look forward to reading more! :)Alyssahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01821650113609994403noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-16984282614337739692008-08-07T05:48:00.000-04:002008-08-07T05:48:00.000-04:00No. Absolutely not. :/ One of the major weaknes...No. Absolutely not. :/ One of the major weaknesses of fanfic as a community is that not only does custom require all stories to carry movie-style ratings, but anything that might make <I>anyone</I> blink, much less go "Ick!" or "Eww!" is warned up, down and sideways, even to the point of spoiling a plot twist. I find it frustrating and annoying, and would hate to see commercial fiction go the same way.<BR/><BR/>AngieAngiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11920578701763415331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-64103483405164498332008-08-07T03:10:00.000-04:002008-08-07T03:10:00.000-04:00I've never been upset by a book, never felt it to ...I've never been upset by a book, never felt it to be too explicit. I've been bored by books, disappointed by them, disgusted by them, but never shocked, not really.<BR/><BR/>I think if we start rating books on content, we need to start rating thoughts and conversations. Maybe we should have designated 'explicit' zones where people can be graphic or gruesome freely, and other 'safe' zones where the innocent and naive can play...<BR/><BR/>Sorry, that was a bit cynical, but I get that way when it comes to ratings.Wizbithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12850261353133950500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-30398930154351155242008-08-07T00:46:00.000-04:002008-08-07T00:46:00.000-04:00When Kensington Publishing launched Aphrodisia, th...When Kensington Publishing launched Aphrodisia, they knew they were coming out with very sexy books that some readers might find offensive, so they opted for a warning. On the back of each book is a small notice: "WARNING This is a really hot book. (Sexually Explicit)" We still get Amazon.com reader reviews that complain there's too much sex in the books! <BR/><BR/>As far as putting a warning in the query letter, I would say absolutely not. It's so subjective--everyone's squick threshold is different and it's better to let editors decide for themselves whether or not the material is too graphic.Kate Douglashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05486916548114546095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-4407678985304247002008-08-07T00:06:00.000-04:002008-08-07T00:06:00.000-04:00I'm definitely with the "no ratings" crowd. You r...I'm definitely with the "no ratings" crowd. You really can't put an objective label on something subjective like "hotness" anyway.<BR/><BR/>And I agree with those saying poor plotting and writing are a bigger turn off than explicit scenes. I've never put down a book because it was too sexy or violent, but I've quit when the sex or violence made no sense to the story.Elissa Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10727748060605823895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-38447827475464835842008-08-06T23:50:00.000-04:002008-08-06T23:50:00.000-04:00I agree that a rating system might create more pro...I agree that a rating system might create more problems than it solves. But readers do need some kind of hint about what may be coming.<BR/><BR/>John Ringo's Ghost series (military/techno thrillers) shocked his Sci Fi readers with its graphic and often violent sexuality. But he did an excellent job of setting the tone early so that we had some clue of what we were getting into. I can't remember all the intros, but Chapter 1 (not the prologue) of Unto the Breach begins with the main character saying, "F*** me." Two for the price of one, and if the reader can deal with that intro, they can probably survive everything else Ringo throws at them.<BR/><BR/>Readers will forgive surprises but not disappointment. Well-executed first paragraphs are the only rating system we need.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-42373425514700228152008-08-06T22:18:00.000-04:002008-08-06T22:18:00.000-04:00I don't think I'm too explicit in my writing. In f...I don't think I'm too explicit in my writing. In fact, I think I might be a bit too tame compared to some of the really hot authors out there.<BR/><BR/>I stick to my comfort level, which may rise and fall according to the story. If an agent or editor asks for more or less heat, I'll comply to the best of my ability.<BR/><BR/>When I was younger, I often raided my parents' library and stumbled across some really explicit stuff. I knew it was taboo, but didn't shy away from it. I like to think I learned a thing or two!Sandra Cormierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00231342310371529022noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-27146777564221953372008-08-06T21:32:00.000-04:002008-08-06T21:32:00.000-04:00As far as sex and profanity go, nothing offends me...As far as sex and profanity go, nothing offends me. I have a harder time with extreme violence, but I wouldn't expect to be warned about it via a ratings system. Chances are I won't be caught off guard because the violence will fit in the story and I will be prepared for it by I've read so far. If it doesn't fit in the story, I'll put down the book not because I'm offended, but because the story is obviously not well written.<BR/><BR/>Book rating system = boo. It would only lead to restrictions on who could access which books, and frankly I'm sick of unnecessary restrictions.<BR/><BR/>Really, the only thing in a book that would offend me is if an author's bigotry is showing. And there mustn't be a ratings system for that, either. It would result in the worst kind of labeling and pettiness.Joliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16854297753580066357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-37370517909269151462008-08-06T20:04:00.000-04:002008-08-06T20:04:00.000-04:00This is where recommendations and book blogging ca...This is where recommendations and book blogging can be so helpful. I don't favor a rating system, but it can be impossible to know. I"m a Christian and while I read just about everything, I know some people who want to stay away from certain stuff. Explicit sex scenes or a lot of language being the main things. So for some readers, it is important to know up front, and they will not buy books if they aren't sure.Amyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02515314638093018928noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-76187157187141450472008-08-06T19:10:00.000-04:002008-08-06T19:10:00.000-04:00I don't imagine there will be a mandatory, age-res...I don't imagine there will be a mandatory, age-restricting rating system for books unless something widely offensive happens like it did with movies with <I>The Texas Chainsaw Massacre</I>.<BR/><BR/>Even so, since readers generally have some kind of taste and expectation in play when they pick up a book, having a clear indication of what they're getting would only benefit sales, I think.<BR/><BR/>Though perhaps people reading on the train to work would rather not have the "SUPER HOT SEX" indicator displayed on the spine... :)Laurel Amberdinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03176533448565008889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-67027151657272118232008-08-06T18:17:00.000-04:002008-08-06T18:17:00.000-04:00Oddly, I get a lot of comments from readers who wi...Oddly, I get a lot of comments from readers who wish I was MORE explicit...T. M. Hunterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04315726033990784930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-87326149677602119262008-08-06T17:37:00.000-04:002008-08-06T17:37:00.000-04:00If I pick up a romance novel and it gets a bit hot...If I pick up a romance novel and it gets a bit hotter than I usually read I don't mind, I may skip, but I don't mind as long as the scene fits and isn't filler.<BR/><BR/>I do mind having an erotic scene in a book where I'm not expecting it. If I picked up a fantasy or sci-fi book where the back said it was a hard-boiled detective novel (or something similar) and I find erotica I'm not happy. I like some fair warning.<BR/><BR/>As for ratings.... as a reader I'd probably ignore them, but as a parent I'd kind of like to have some rating system for novels. When we're at the bookstore I don't necassarily have the resources to read the reviews and find out if a book my daughter wants has content that we need to talk about ahead of time or that as a family we've agreed don't meet our standards. I know teens get into all sorts of things, but when you have children reading ahead of their age level the maturity isn't always there to balance out things. A sticker on the shelf saying "mature YA" or something would be nice.Liana Brookshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14587774916354749190noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-4603728808338852952008-08-06T16:23:00.000-04:002008-08-06T16:23:00.000-04:00I'm with the consensus that the language of the bo...I'm with the consensus that the language of the book should warn the reader on some level. In my very first crit group, there was an author that wrote historical western romances. Each time she was in the hero's POV, she always had him curse a time or two in his dialogue. She told our group that this indicated to the reader early on that the book would be racier in other ways as well, i.e. sex scenes. Also, the scene must be necessary and must change the dynamics of the hero/heroine's relationship from that point on.<BR/><BR/>As to what is too explicit? That's tough, because it is so subjective. But personally, I don't think you can go wrong so long as you follow your characters and be true to them. THEY will tell you how hot the scenes will be between them in the bedroom, according to their pasts, their personalities, their needs. It only feels forced and explicit if you stray out of character.<BR/><BR/>Stephen King said in his autobiography that the only way to wrong a reader is to lie to them. As fiction writers, that's sort of our job ... so it seems like a catch 22. But, I think what he meant was don't let your CHARACTERS lie to the readers. So long as the heroes/heroines are true to themselves and the world they live in, the reader will never feel slighted or deceived ... or violated, for that matter.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-15127496801766224332008-08-06T15:31:00.000-04:002008-08-06T15:31:00.000-04:00I'm for less is more. If the stage is set for sexu...I'm for less is more. If the stage is set for sexual tension, your own mind fills in details according to what you find attractive -- someone's hand going up somone's thigh can be much more exciting than giving a play by play of what happens next. Too explicit details take you out of that, sometimes, I think.<BR/><BR/>But I write YA, so maybe I should let the romance writers answer this one...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-74622895096354656782008-08-06T15:01:00.000-04:002008-08-06T15:01:00.000-04:00I ran into a graphic sex scene in a sci fi which t...I ran into a graphic sex scene in a sci fi which through me off. I wasn't expecting it from the genre, and while the sex was expected, there was little lead up to how explicit the description would be.<BR/><BR/>Rather than a rating system I'd want more information. I can't tell anymore from the cover or the blurbs whether "hot" means explicit or erotic. And I HATE it when the cover doesn't have anything to do with the story.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-37174336437627745752008-08-06T14:22:00.000-04:002008-08-06T14:22:00.000-04:00I have been caught off guard by explicit stuff in ...I have been caught off guard by explicit stuff in books. I don't think I'd go for a rating system per se, but I would like to see some language in the back cover copy, for example, that would give an idea of what one is getting into. (This doesn't apply to the category romance lines, where I suppose the name of the line alone pretty much tells you what to expect.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-75758352734557429942008-08-06T14:21:00.000-04:002008-08-06T14:21:00.000-04:00I only have a problem with sex scenes if they're: ...I only have a problem with sex scenes if they're: A.) gratuitous, since no scene should ever be gratuitous, B.) poorly done, because there's nothing worse than a bad sex scene, C.) obviously there to fill a quota [must have 5 sex scenes per novel], or D.) violent- and I don't mean lost in the throes of passion.WordVixenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01713637403798552713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-18582901560743259762008-08-06T13:25:00.000-04:002008-08-06T13:25:00.000-04:00I'm not a fan of the hotter books in romance. I w...I'm not a fan of the hotter books in romance. I will put a book down if it becomes too explicit for me. In truth, that is rarely the only problem a book has though. I realize that this isn't 100% true, but I've noticed that in an awful lot of the books I've read lately, the bigger the sex, the lower the quality of the rest of the book.<BR/><BR/>However, I don't feel a need for a rating system. Covers say a lot. Does it have naked people in it? People losing their clothing? Lots of skin? Guess what... It's probably going to be high on the hotness scale and not something that would interest me.<BR/><BR/>Same thing with the back blurb. If the story is about 'wild passion' etc., etc., then I put it back.<BR/><BR/>What does upset me is when a book cover/blurb don't give an accurate portrayal of the story inside. And in truth, that is a greater problem than just the sex.Lehcarjthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17171145477602995121noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23051453.post-35844794928698725252008-08-06T13:18:00.000-04:002008-08-06T13:18:00.000-04:00I would hope that by researching your agent and wh...I would hope that by researching your agent and what he/she has represented, as well as the standards for the genre, would hint at whether a prospective agent would be offended/put off/not interested in your work due to the level of sex. If the agent has only repped squeaky-clean projects and hasn't indicated an interest of getting out of that mold, he/she is probably not interested in anything too erotic.<BR/><BR/>As a reader, I don't require ratings. Sometimes I think it might be nice to know if a book has something that wouldn't be expected for the genre (e.g. a graphic rape, perhaps), but I'm fine doing my own research beforehand.Kristin Laughtinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01536556357622503501noreply@blogger.com